Info-Atari16 Digest Thu, 23 Jan 92 Volume 92 : Issue 39 Today's Topics: Amiga flamers Amiga flames (was: Atarians! Where are yiu ?! and: Yet another ST Atari 1040STe/30Meg HD/Mono Monitor $550 Atarians! Where Are You?! (2 msgs) computer flame wars are stupid Dungeon Master, once again (2 msgs) FTP for PD software (2 msgs) Is STart magazine utterly dead? MIDI out to audio New Supra Modem... Poscript problem scanner software, OCR, IMG manipulation. Spectre users unite! ST Drive blues X server for Atari? Yet another ST for sale Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 23 Jan 92 11:09:26 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!yorkohm!minster!jph@uunet.uu.net Subject: Amiga flamers To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu A note to all Atari owners on the net - please don't reply to the Amiga idiot who insists on trying to start a flame war every other week. These flames are totally non-productive and a complete waste of time. If we just ignore him he'll get bored and go off to somewhere else and leave us in peace. Maybe we should have a moderator to filter out this flame trash. Jonathan. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan P. Hassell - HCI Group Dept. of Computer Science, University of York, York, Y01 5DD, UK. Tel : (+44 904 432765) UUCP MAIL: {mcsun,uknet}!minster!jph JANET MAIL: jph@uk.ac.york.minster INTERNET MAIL: jph@minster.york.ac.uk last resort: jph%minster.york.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk ------------------------- Usual Disclaimers Apply ----------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 92 17:37:32 MEZ From: Thorsten Nitz Subject: Amiga flames (was: Atarians! Where are yiu ?! and: Yet another ST To: info-atari 16 list It was written : >In article <1992Jan18.122843.10678@actrix.gen.nz> Roger.Sheppard@actrix.gen.nz > (Roger Sheppard) writes: >> >>Please tell us all how this is posible with Standard A500 or is this >>the Reason that the Amiga does not have very many DTP programs..?? >> >I suppose you don't consider PageStream 2.2 a DTP program??? Don't they >even publish it for the toy atari? Of course the Amiga's is one version >HIGHER than yours. > >The Super Denise chip that is now included with new A500's sold in Europe >(and soon to be in the states also) gives Productivity mode which displays >640 X 480 flicker free on ANY VGA type (or multisync monitor). This means >a user can go out and buy an $89 paper white mono VGA and use it with his A500. >The Super Denise can be had for about $55 for older A500's ($55 + $89 STILL >adds up to less than the price of a new toyari monochrome - in case you can't >add!) > >>Also I here that the sales of A500 + is now gone minus, they are all taking >>them back as they can't play games on this new machine any more..?? >> > >Kinda like the monstrosity known as the STe??? TOS 1.06 hardly runs anything!! >Also, how many of your ST GAMES run on your beloved TT?? > >>And were are all your PD C compilers, this main Amiga chaps here don't >>seem to know much about them.. >> > >The amiga doesn't NEED a PD compiler. There are still publishers that >support us!! > >>Also have you thought that we have better things to do with our >>machines than to spend time chatting on the net...:-).. >> > >Since the Amiga is a TRUE multitasking machine, we can do more than one thing >at a time. Try THAT with your ST! (and don't even bother mentioning >multigem.... That's about as good a multitasker as switcher is on the Mac) > >Also I guess keeping an eye out for some loser who will buy your 'computer' >keeps the average Atarian pretty busy too! > >And MY goddamn pointer never has flickered EITHER!!! In Fact the ONLY >non-flickering pointer I've ever seen on a toy atari is when it is running >under Spectre! Heh heh heh..... It was further written : > >In article <1992Jan22.183730.12621@varian.uucp> lefko@csbvax.uucp (Marty > Lefkowitz) writes: >>Atari 520STfm for sale. Hardly used. 1040 motherboard. >>Comes with mono monitor, >>1 double sided disk (IBM compatible) >>1 single sided disk. >>Monitor Stand >>All origonal boxes and manuals >> >>$350 or best offer. > > >Heh heh.... Like a rat scrambling to abandon a sinking ship, yet another >Atarian offers up his 'computer' hoping that some fool will be stupid enough >to buy it. > >_______________________________________________________________________________ > __ > I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, /// ~~~~~~ You may very well be kicked elsewhere, though ... :-) > briefed, debriefed, or numbered. __ /// Only Amiga makes > \\\/// it possible..... > My life is my own. \XX/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > england@u.washington.edu > PLEASE spare me this. If I really wanted to know about Amigas I'd subscribe to the Amiga list. And as for the second mail (I won't even mention the author, Greg!), NO, NOT ANOTHER FALME WAR ! As a good example of peaceableness I spare you the remark that Amiga users don't sell their machines because they can't get rid of them... Thorsten Nitz sb010ni@dacth11.bitnet ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 92 18:34:27 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wupost!darwin.sura.net!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru. edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!udecc.engr.udayton.edu!blackbi rd.afit.af.mil!lonex.rl.af. (Jeffrey K. Long) Subject: Atari 1040STe/30Meg HD/Mono Monitor $550 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Title pretty much sums it up, huh?l 1040STe, Monochrome monitor, 30 Meg ICD Based Harddrive WordPerfect 4.1, Flash 1.6, Shadow, Steno/Stalker,Generation Gap+ GFA Basic 3.0 w/compiler, Turbo ST Works perfectly, looks new, All above software comes with original Docs and Disks. $550.00 I pay shipping via UPS Jeff Long -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Capt Jeff Long Rome Laboratories, Griffiss AFB, NY longj@lonex.rl.af.mil (preferred) Network Design Laboratory jlong@cassiopeia.rl.af.mil (315)330-7751 or (DSN)587-7751 ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 92 13:28:27 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!bcc.ac.uk!ucacmsu@uunet.uu.net (Mr Stephen R Usher) Subject: Atarians! Where Are You?! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1992Jan23.071233.10605@milton.u.washington.edu> tlk@hardy.u.washington.edu (Jeremy C. Norberg) writes: >In article <1992Jan18.122843.10678@actrix.gen.nz> Roger.Sheppard@actrix.gen.nz (Roger Sheppard) writes: >> >>Please tell us all how this is posible with Standard A500 or is this >>the Reason that the Amiga does not have very many DTP programs..?? >> >I suppose you don't consider PageStream 2.2 a DTP program??? Don't they >even publish it for the toy atari? Of course the Amiga's is one version >HIGHER than yours. This is a childish remark. > >The Super Denise chip that is now included with new A500's sold in Europe >(and soon to be in the states also) gives Productivity mode which displays >640 X 480 flicker free on ANY VGA type (or multisync monitor). This means >a user can go out and buy an $89 paper white mono VGA and use it with his A500. >The Super Denise can be had for about $55 for older A500's ($55 + $89 STILL >adds up to less than the price of a new toyari monochrome - in case you can't >add!) > >>Also I here that the sales of A500 + is now gone minus, they are all taking >>them back as they can't play games on this new machine any more..?? >> > >Kinda like the monstrosity known as the STe??? TOS 1.06 hardly runs anything!! >Also, how many of your ST GAMES run on your beloved TT?? How many games will run on the A3000? I suspect none which assume that the processor is a 68000 or which assume that the hardware is theirs alone to play with. If they don't run, it's the software authors who should be blamed, not the hardware. > >>And were are all your PD C compilers, this main Amiga chaps here don't >>seem to know much about them.. >> > >The amiga doesn't NEED a PD compiler. There are still publishers that >support us!! EVERY platform needs a PD C compiler unless it comes with one as standard, this allows poor people who can only afford the bare machine to contribute to the community. > >>Also have you thought that we have better things to do with our >>machines than to spend time chatting on the net...:-).. >> > >Since the Amiga is a TRUE multitasking machine, we can do more than one thing >at a time. Try THAT with your ST! (and don't even bother mentioning >multigem.... That's about as good a multitasker as switcher is on the Mac) Have a look at the MiNT project... it is a fully multi-tasking OS extention for TOS and includes such things as PIPEs, SEMAPHORES priority scheduling etc, and the source is available! (It will run ALL software which doesn't assume too much about the system, eg that it loads at a certain address or that it knows where its parent's data space is). If you want a Real-Time multitasking OS, then get RTX. And.. oh yes.. multi-TOS is just around the corner. > >Also I guess keeping an eye out for some loser who will buy your 'computer' >keeps the average Atarian pretty busy too! This is again childish. > >And MY goddamn pointer never has flickered EITHER!!! In Fact the ONLY >non-flickering pointer I've ever seen on a toy atari is when it is running >under Spectre! Heh heh heh..... Erm.. the pointer on my machines has never flickered! Maybe you were thinking of the Amiga pointer on a HAM mode screen. (Sorry.. that's childish too.) Steve PS. The Amiga is a fine machine for graphics, and quite good for sound, but it isn't ideal for some things, including I must say, programming in C. -- Addresses:- JANET:- ucacmsu@uk.ac.ucl or susher@uk.ac.csm Internet:- ucacmsu@ucl.ac.uk or susher@csm.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 92 10:24:15 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!kc@uunet.uu.net (Kenneth Cameron) Subject: Atarians! Where Are You?! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1992Jan23.071233.10605@milton.u.washington.edu> ... (Jeremy C. Norberg) writes: >Since the Amiga is a TRUE multitasking machine, we can do more than one thing >at a time. Try THAT with your ST! (and don't even bother mentioning >multigem.... That's about as good a multitasker as switcher is on the Mac) I don't really want to get involved in an Atari/Amiga flame war, but I heard something about the Amiga from a friend who just got one, that I thought was so funny, I just had to share it with my fellow Atarians. You know how the Amiga fanatics flaunt the fact that they have a TRUE multitasking machine. Well, apparently when two processes decide to access the floppy, they do just that, and the head runs up and down the disk as each moves it back and forward never getting where they want. Eventually ( after several seconds ) they time out and after a pause one restarts first and manages to complete the operation. Can you say elavator algorithm ?, the Amiga systems programmers did n't. (I think the machine by friend bought was new, so this is the current release of the OS :-) -- Kenneth@Edinburgh Any opinions expressed above are mine, Edinburgh University can't afford any of their own at the moment. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 92 14:57:28 GMT From: ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!chu@rutgers.rutgers.edu (john c chu) Subject: computer flame wars are stupid To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu My apologies on the meta-discussion. (Anyone who has read news.announce.newusers can tell you that meta-discussions are frowned upon.) However, does it really matter which computer is "better"? More importantly, who cares? "Knowing" that you have the "better" computer doesn't change its capacities, in any case. Most of the flame wars I've witnessed are a result of ignorance. Cheap shots and ad hominem attacks are not going to change this. I suppose its an ego thing to think that the computer you own is the "best". (I'm not necessarily above this myself.) So if you're going to waste your time arguing in ignorance using cheap tactics, will you please take it into e-mail? All flames will be blissfully ignored. Please note the follow-up. john chu@acsu.buffalo.edu ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 92 14:49:57 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!sersun1!okes@uunet.uu.net (Oke S) Subject: Dungeon Master, once again To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu How to defeat Chaos: Get to the small room in the corner of the level and kill the demon in there. Hang around in this room and wait for Chaos to arrive. When he does, let him in and close the doors. Dodge his magic, and make fluxcages constantly. When the room is fuul of them and Chaos is in the corner of the room which is also the corner of the level, face him and FUSE. Now watch the game's end sequence. Simon. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 92 18:06:26 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!zazen!news@ariz ona.edu (PAul STevens -- MACC) Subject: Dungeon Master, once again To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article , okes@solb1.essex. >How to defeat Chaos: >Get to the small room in the corner of the level and kill the demon in there. >Hang around in this room and wait for Chaos to arrive. When he does, let him >in and close the doors. Dodge his magic, and make fluxcages constantly. >When the room is fuul of them and Chaos is in the corner of the room which >is also the corner of the level, face him and FUSE. >Now watch the game's end sequence. > > Simon. I did not find it QUITE that complicated. It has been a long time but I recall getting him out in the middle of the big room in a place I could move around, stepping to each of the four sides of him and caging him on the four sides. Then the final blow. Perhaps it would be easier your way in a small room! PAul ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jan 92 12:03:42 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!newcastle.ac.uk!turing!n03ls@uunet.uu.net (Jane Fothergill) Subject: FTP for PD software To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Which FTP sites have PD available for the Atari ST???? BTW in reference to my last mail about a lack of memory, I was right, I've taken it back and now possess a 1040 not a mock 1040!!! Jane ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jan 92 14:23:03 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!newcastle.ac.uk!turing!n08z7@uunet.uu.net (Craig Graham) Subject: FTP for PD software To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Why not try these sites for a starter, (courtesy of us at Newcastle University Computing Society, England)??? atari.archive.umich.edu / terminator.cc.umich.edu ummts.cc.umich.edu (cd PC7:) pdsoft.lancs.ac.uk ssyx.ucsc.edu tolsun.oulu.fi umn-cs.cs.umn.edu wuarchive.wustl.edu score.stanford.edu jyu.fi dsrgsun.ces.cwru.edu rusinfo.rus.uni-stuttgart.de ENJOY.......... >>>>>>>>>>>>>CRAIG GRAHAM>>>>>>>>>> <--------------------------------------------------------------------------> /\ /\ ..Not built to last but built to burn, / \ / \ Contribute, contribute, send all you earn. / \ _ / \ No deposit, no return. / \ / \ / \ No deposit, no return. /_______ / \ ________\ Health and happiness guaranteed, |P O P| Free seven day trail, it's all you need. \ / Every hour on the hour, this is the voice of fate. /\_/\ It's the voice of power. / \ E104,E122,E137,E142. / \ Here's to the king of the nineteen nineties..... /_________\ ...give me everything.....give me everything........ -POP WILL EAT ITSELF. This is the day, this is the hour, this is this.... ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 92 15:06:35 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wupost!news.utdallas.edu!tamsun!mtecv2!uapnx1. dgsca.unam.mx@arizona.edu (Gerardo Cisneros) Subject: Is STart magazine utterly dead? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Does anybody know if STart magazine is definitely dead? Or whether they still have an office in San Francisco? Their subscriptions P.O. Box in Mount Morris has been closed, according to the USPS. Your replies to my questions will be appreciated. -- Dr. Gerardo Cisneros |Depto. de Aplicacion de Microcomputadoras gerardo@uapnx1.dgsca.unam.mx |Instituto de Ciencias, UAP, Puebla CISNEROS@UNAMVM1 (BITNET) |91-92: on sabbatical at DGSCA/UNAM, Mexico ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 92 14:52:01 GMT From: FREIA.INF.TU-DRESDEN.DE!hohmuth@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Michael Hohmuth) Subject: MIDI out to audio To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu fernwood!portal!cup.portal.com!Azog-Thoth@uunet.uu.net (William Thomas Daugustine) writes: > Hi. I am interested in a hopefully easy way to take the stuff that > I record via MIDI on my STe, and somehow pump it thru the STes > stereo audio out. Anyway I can do this without buying stuff like > expensive digitizers? There is a freeware software syntesizer called SMS from R.A.P. It's able to record MIDI events and to pump them to the audio outputs (mono and STe's stereo (I think; I don't own a STe)) with a reasonable quality. It supports four sound channels and two drum channels. Is that what you need? SMS comes with lots of samples and a tool that lets you create your own high quality samples. For 40DM you get a tool that lets you play SMS soundtracks from within your own programs. To get an impression of SMS' quality, get one of the games MidiMaze II (shareware) or OXYD (dongleware): The title soundtrack of these games was created using SMS. Oh, I forgot: SMS' docs are in German. I don't know if there is an English version. Michael -- hohmuth@freia.inf.tu-dresden.de ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 92 17:17:44 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!caddac1.waterloo. edu!jparker@arizona.edu (James Parker) Subject: New Supra Modem... To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1992Jan23.102316.400@actrix.gen.nz> Roger.Sheppard@actrix.gen.nz (Roger Sheppard) writes: >In article <1992Jan22.194723.23878@milton.u.washington.edu> tymbrimi@milton.u.washington.edu (Ben Gilbert) writes: >> Hi, I recently saw an ad in a friend's computer magazine for a new >> Supra modem, something like the Supra 2400 PLUS, it says it has >> asynchronous 300,1200,2400 bps (that's the usual I suppose), 4800 bps >> with MNP 5, and 9600 bps with v32.bis or v42.bis (can't remember which). >> So can I actually pay the CHEAP $130 bucks for this modem and dial up >> my school net at 9600 baud? Sounds like a good deal to me, I know that >> my school dial-in IS this new v32(42).bis thing, someone tell me, 9600 >> baud would be awesome for only $130 mail order... >> I have a somewhat related question concerning my Supra 2400 modem. I have been using it satisfactorily for several years until recently new modems were installed on the server here at the university. Now I cannot connect at 2400 baud (tho' it does still work at 1200). According to the docs, the dial-in lines use V.42bis at 2400 baud. My Supra 2400 manual says it is V.22bis. Is there an inherent incompatibility here? Do I need to get a new modem using V.42bis to talk at 2400? Please say no! I know nil about what V.42, V.22 etc means so be easy on me. thanks for any help. james ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 92 14:59:17 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!samsung!nstar!syscon!miked@arizona.ed u (Mike DeMetz) Subject: Poscript problem To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu For some time I have be producing our clubs newsletter on the ST with Timeworks DTP and using PSCAPT to save the postscript output to disk to take to work and copy to the laser printer. It has worked fine. The cover page has some artwork and one clip-art picture along with some text. When I took a digitized pic from VIDI-ST and imported it into the cover page and tried to print it I got nothing. The printer seems to take data for a while then goes to waiting, then times out. Pushing the Formfeed does nothing. Removing the pic makes everything OK again. Size of pic does no seem to make any differnce. Any ideas on the problem?? ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jan 92 11:59:38 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!newcastle.ac.uk!turing!ntgk@uunet.uu.net (Trevor Kirby) Subject: scanner software, OCR, IMG manipulation. To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I'm debating about buying a scanner and am looking for some recommendations and a few hints for suitable software. I'm intending to use it mainly to scale plans for models and am not looking for mega buck solutions. What I want is something to scan in plans and allow me to scale them. A CAD-CAM system is way overkill for this, something that allows me to resize an IMG file and either see the size on the screen as I'm doing it or allows me to shrink/expand to a known size will be fine. I'd also like some software that allows me to glue some images together accurately ie. not like touchup which just gives a blank clip box when you move it round. Has anyone used the golden image scanning tray? Finally is there any OCR software out there? Trev ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 92 19:47:07 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wupost!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!firenze!wmagro @arizona.edu (William Magro) Subject: Spectre users unite! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Are there enough spectre users out there to get a new newsgroup going? I don't remember the rules for starting a new newsgroup. Anyone want to refresh me? We could have comp.sys.atari.st.spectre and we could share problems, experiences, successes, etc. there. Any interest? --Bill ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 92 12:24:12 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!yorkohm!minster!mjl-b@uunet.uu.net Subject: ST Drive blues To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1992Jan22.164419@aifh.ed.ac.uk> aiscc@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Stuart Charman) writes: > >I have but a lowly single-sided internal drive, and am desperately in need >of an update to double-sided. Can anyone give me any advice as to the best >or cheapest way to go about this. Can I simply buy a external drive, or must >I fit a new internal. What price an internal, can I fit it myself. I believe that you can just go out and buy a slimline 3.5" drive mechanism and plug it into the ST. You will probably have to cut your ST's case so that you can push the button that ejects disks. This is essentially what you get with "1MB drive upgrade kits." -- the mechanism and instructions on where to cut your case! You will probably save money by buying a 3.5" mechanism directly. >Cheers, > >Stuart. Mat | Mathew Lodge | "What do they call you, boy?" "Kate." "Isn't | | mjl-b@minster.york.ac.uk | that a bit of a girl's name?" "... it's | | Summer: lodge%alsys@uknet | short for 'Bob'" -- Blackadder II | ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 92 18:51:24 GMT From: apple!netcomsv!mats@ames.arpa (Mats Wichmann) Subject: X server for Atari? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu So, does anyone know of an X server which would run on a TT/030 to make it usable as an Xterminal? Seems like I've heard rumors of such a thing, but I have no info at all. -- Mats Wichmann Systems Software Consultant alruna!mats@ossi.com (or mats@netcom.com) ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 92 13:48:00 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!natinst.com!glens@arizona .edu (Glen Sescila) Subject: Yet another ST for sale To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu england@u.washington.edu writes ... > Heh heh.... Like a rat scrambling to abandon a sinking ship, yet another > Atarian offers up his 'computer' hoping that some fool will be stupid enough > to buy it. I just wanted to mention that I can see at least 4X as many Amigas for sale per week as Ataris. In fact they had to create a whole seperate newsgroup just for unloading Amigas! > Heh heh.... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Now You're Playing With Power Without The Price!" Glen Sescila ||| / | \ My opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my employer and probably are exact opposites. glens@natinst.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************